Dear Friends,
Because of the holiday season, the Centro Segoviano will be closed until the 8th January 2012. For
this reason our next meeting will be the 8th.
In the meantime, for our first meeting of the new year we are discussing: The Perfect Me.
Don't forget that on Thursday's there is still the meeting by Ignacio and friends details here:
Thursday's Open Tertulia in English
Important Notice: From December 1st, the Tertulia will take place at O'Donnells (ex-Moore's) Irish
Pub, c/ Barceló 1 (metro Tribunal)
http://sites.google.com/site/tertuliainenglishmadrid/
May I finally take this opportunity to wish you all the best for Christmas and the New Year. See you
on the 8th January 2012.
Lawrence
Meet 6:30pm
Centro Segoviano
Alburquerque, 14
28010 Madrid
914457935
Metro: Bilbao
-----------Ignacio------------
In the meantime Ignacio has reminded me to let you know about the new arrangements for the Thursday
meeting.
Thursday's Open Tertulia in English
Important Notice: From December 1st, the Tertulia will take place at O'Donnells (ex-Moore's) Irish
Pub, c/ Barceló 1 (metro Tribunal)
http://sites.google.com/site/tertuliainenglishmadrid/
from Lawrence, Sunday PhiloMadrid meeting: Happy Holidays and see you 8th January 2012
PhiloMadrid - Pub Philosophy Meetings in Madrid
22 December 2011
13 December 2011
from Lawrence, Sunday PhiloMadrid meeting: Making everybody like ourselves
Dear Friends,
Just in case I won't find a wifi connection from Holland, I am sending email for Sunday today.
This Sunday we are discussing: Making everybody like ourselves (in our own image).
We certainly, want others to do what we want, or to do things that benefit us. And the idea of
beings created in the image of another being is, of course, not new. But the case we are most
familiar with we associate the resulting beings as an inferior copy of the original being.
The question is whether we can really create or make others in our images. Now, whether by design,
chance or the way nature work, we find mythology, in the form of religion, claiming that we are made
in the image of god, but a rather imperfect image of god. And from cloning technology, and more
directly, from Dolly the sheep, we know that a clone of another animal would not be logically
equivalent to the original animal. Dolly, if you remember, inherited the aged conditions of its clone.
From an anthropological point of view, it would be interesting to know how the mythology is
confirmed by science: in the same way that science confirms those race/religious beliefs that
dependency travels via the female branch: biologically this would be the mitochondria.
The philosophical issues might include: Can we physically make someone who is logically equivalent
to us? And if we can, can we then distinguish the original us and the made up us? Would the Turing
test be enough?
Or could it be that what we really mean by making someone in our image, or like ourselves, is making
someone who can fulfil our wishes and desires. In other words we want someone to do those things for
us which we cannot do ourselves. In a round about way, this brings us to the same question about
mythology, but maybe in an inverted order (maybe think of a Möbius strip or a mirror image here
although they are not the same thing!). We want to create clones like us because they represent what
we cannot achieve, i.e. live longer than our biological capacity? And by the same token, we create
perfect gods because we recognise that we are the ultimate creatures of imperfection and devoid of
ethical consistently?
But then again, we know apriori that a biological clone wouldn't live that much longer in the scheme
of things, even if a clone manages to live longer than us. And the theological/anthropological
challenge would be whether our image of our gods is itself inherently flawed by virtue that it is
our conceptual creation and therefore it inherits our conceptual flaws; in the same that the genes
of a close would inherit the flaws in our genes.
Best, see you Sunday,
Lawrence
Meet 6:30pm
Centro Segoviano
Alburquerque, 14
28010 Madrid
914457935
Metro: Bilbao
-----------Ignacio------------
In the meantime Ignacio has reminded me to let you know about the new arrangements for the Thursday
meeting.
Thursday's Open Tertulia in English
Important Notice: From December 1st, the Tertulia will take place at O'Donnells (ex-Moore's) Irish
Pub, c/ Barceló 1 (metro Tribunal)
http://sites.google.com/site/tertuliainenglishmadrid/
from Lawrence, Sunday PhiloMadrid meeting: Making everybody like ourselves
Just in case I won't find a wifi connection from Holland, I am sending email for Sunday today.
This Sunday we are discussing: Making everybody like ourselves (in our own image).
We certainly, want others to do what we want, or to do things that benefit us. And the idea of
beings created in the image of another being is, of course, not new. But the case we are most
familiar with we associate the resulting beings as an inferior copy of the original being.
The question is whether we can really create or make others in our images. Now, whether by design,
chance or the way nature work, we find mythology, in the form of religion, claiming that we are made
in the image of god, but a rather imperfect image of god. And from cloning technology, and more
directly, from Dolly the sheep, we know that a clone of another animal would not be logically
equivalent to the original animal. Dolly, if you remember, inherited the aged conditions of its clone.
From an anthropological point of view, it would be interesting to know how the mythology is
confirmed by science: in the same way that science confirms those race/religious beliefs that
dependency travels via the female branch: biologically this would be the mitochondria.
The philosophical issues might include: Can we physically make someone who is logically equivalent
to us? And if we can, can we then distinguish the original us and the made up us? Would the Turing
test be enough?
Or could it be that what we really mean by making someone in our image, or like ourselves, is making
someone who can fulfil our wishes and desires. In other words we want someone to do those things for
us which we cannot do ourselves. In a round about way, this brings us to the same question about
mythology, but maybe in an inverted order (maybe think of a Möbius strip or a mirror image here
although they are not the same thing!). We want to create clones like us because they represent what
we cannot achieve, i.e. live longer than our biological capacity? And by the same token, we create
perfect gods because we recognise that we are the ultimate creatures of imperfection and devoid of
ethical consistently?
But then again, we know apriori that a biological clone wouldn't live that much longer in the scheme
of things, even if a clone manages to live longer than us. And the theological/anthropological
challenge would be whether our image of our gods is itself inherently flawed by virtue that it is
our conceptual creation and therefore it inherits our conceptual flaws; in the same that the genes
of a close would inherit the flaws in our genes.
Best, see you Sunday,
Lawrence
Meet 6:30pm
Centro Segoviano
Alburquerque, 14
28010 Madrid
914457935
Metro: Bilbao
-----------Ignacio------------
In the meantime Ignacio has reminded me to let you know about the new arrangements for the Thursday
meeting.
Thursday's Open Tertulia in English
Important Notice: From December 1st, the Tertulia will take place at O'Donnells (ex-Moore's) Irish
Pub, c/ Barceló 1 (metro Tribunal)
http://sites.google.com/site/tertuliainenglishmadrid/
from Lawrence, Sunday PhiloMadrid meeting: Making everybody like ourselves
08 December 2011
from Lawrence, Sunday PhiloMadrid meeting: Subliminal Messages + News
News: Carlos and Ignacio
Dear Friends,
This Sunday we are discussing: Subliminal Messages.
We usually associate this subject with hidden messages in films to advertise some product or other.
Maybe! But it does always have to be so?
As a subject, the effects and power of subliminal messages ought to be discussed in the sciences
that look at human personality, behaviour and, of course, neurology. The philosophical scope might
be limited to what we mean by subliminal messages in our daily life and how do they affect our idea
of free will.
Also interesting for us would be the question of whether we can, ourselves, send out subliminal
messages with the language we use with each other in order for them to do what we want from them. Or
the biggest question of all, can subliminal messages be employed to determine the fate of a nation
in the same way that political leaders seems to be very masterful at doing?
-----------Ignacio------------
In the meantime Ignacio has reminded me to let you know about the new arrangements for the Thursday
meeting.
Thursday's Open Tertulia in English
Important Notice: From December 1st, the Tertulia will take place at O'Donnells (ex-Moore's) Irish
Pub, c/ Barceló 1 (metro Tribunal)
http://sites.google.com/site/tertuliainenglishmadrid/
-----------Carlos-------------
Carlos has invited us to a meeting and workshop, on the 15 December, by Jesús Leirós and Eduardo
Junquera Cubiles – details below:
EL CLUB DEL HOMBRE LIBRE LE INVITA
AL RECITAL
Poesía y Libertad Intervendrá el Poeta: Jesús Leirós ; y
al Taller de Creatividad: La Libertad Creativa: Educando en Libertad, por el autor de ensayo,
novela, divulgación científica y teatro: Eduardo Junquera Cubiles
Jueves 15 de diciembre de 2011 a las 20:00 horas
Café Comercial
Glorieta de Bilbao nº7 (Madrid)
-----------------
Take care and see you Sunday,
Lawrence
Meet 6:30pm
Centro Segoviano
Alburquerque, 14
28010 Madrid
914457935
Metro: Bilbao
from Lawrence, Sunday PhiloMadrid meeting: Subliminal Messages + News
Dear Friends,
This Sunday we are discussing: Subliminal Messages.
We usually associate this subject with hidden messages in films to advertise some product or other.
Maybe! But it does always have to be so?
As a subject, the effects and power of subliminal messages ought to be discussed in the sciences
that look at human personality, behaviour and, of course, neurology. The philosophical scope might
be limited to what we mean by subliminal messages in our daily life and how do they affect our idea
of free will.
Also interesting for us would be the question of whether we can, ourselves, send out subliminal
messages with the language we use with each other in order for them to do what we want from them. Or
the biggest question of all, can subliminal messages be employed to determine the fate of a nation
in the same way that political leaders seems to be very masterful at doing?
-----------Ignacio------------
In the meantime Ignacio has reminded me to let you know about the new arrangements for the Thursday
meeting.
Thursday's Open Tertulia in English
Important Notice: From December 1st, the Tertulia will take place at O'Donnells (ex-Moore's) Irish
Pub, c/ Barceló 1 (metro Tribunal)
http://sites.google.com/site/tertuliainenglishmadrid/
-----------Carlos-------------
Carlos has invited us to a meeting and workshop, on the 15 December, by Jesús Leirós and Eduardo
Junquera Cubiles – details below:
EL CLUB DEL HOMBRE LIBRE LE INVITA
AL RECITAL
Poesía y Libertad Intervendrá el Poeta: Jesús Leirós ; y
al Taller de Creatividad: La Libertad Creativa: Educando en Libertad, por el autor de ensayo,
novela, divulgación científica y teatro: Eduardo Junquera Cubiles
Jueves 15 de diciembre de 2011 a las 20:00 horas
Café Comercial
Glorieta de Bilbao nº7 (Madrid)
-----------------
Take care and see you Sunday,
Lawrence
Meet 6:30pm
Centro Segoviano
Alburquerque, 14
28010 Madrid
914457935
Metro: Bilbao
from Lawrence, Sunday PhiloMadrid meeting: Subliminal Messages + News
01 December 2011
from Lawrence, Sunday PhiloMadrid meeting: Give Chance a Chance + News
News + Essay
Dear friends,
This Sunday we are discussing: Give chance a Chance.
In the meantime this Saturday, 3 December, there is going to be a talk at 8pm by the Segovian
Journalist, Enrique de Diego, at the Segovian Centre where we meet. All are welcome.
Encarna at the Centro Segoviano has also asked me if we wanted to organise a Christmas Lunch. I told
her that'll ask you first. As many of you would know in the past we used to organise the lunch in
February or March to make sure that we had, by then, digested the Christmas fare from home. Let me
know what you think.
Take care and see you Sunday,
Lawrence
Meet 6:30pm
Centro Segoviano
Alburquerque, 14
28010 Madrid
914457935
Metro: Bilbao
PS don't forget that Ignacio and friends are now meeting at Triskel Tavern (San Vicente Ferrer 3) on
Thursday at 7:30pm.
Give Chance a Chance Essay
Let's see what happens!
Take care
Lawrence
from Lawrence, Sunday PhiloMadrid meeting: Give Chance a Chance + News
Dear friends,
This Sunday we are discussing: Give chance a Chance.
In the meantime this Saturday, 3 December, there is going to be a talk at 8pm by the Segovian
Journalist, Enrique de Diego, at the Segovian Centre where we meet. All are welcome.
Encarna at the Centro Segoviano has also asked me if we wanted to organise a Christmas Lunch. I told
her that'll ask you first. As many of you would know in the past we used to organise the lunch in
February or March to make sure that we had, by then, digested the Christmas fare from home. Let me
know what you think.
Take care and see you Sunday,
Lawrence
Meet 6:30pm
Centro Segoviano
Alburquerque, 14
28010 Madrid
914457935
Metro: Bilbao
PS don't forget that Ignacio and friends are now meeting at Triskel Tavern (San Vicente Ferrer 3) on
Thursday at 7:30pm.
Give Chance a Chance Essay
Let's see what happens!
Take care
Lawrence
from Lawrence, Sunday PhiloMadrid meeting: Give Chance a Chance + News