from Lawrence, Pub Philosophy Group, Sunday meeting: What’s wrong with being judgemental? (essay by Richard)

Dear friends,

Richard has asked me to send you the essay he has written for tomorrow. I am also including mine; I correct the typo which Richard quotes although I still have to read his essay.

Thanks

IF YOU DON'T GET AN EMAIL BY FRIDAY PLEASE LET ME KNOW


+++++++++MEETING DETAILS+++++++++
SUNDAY 6.00pm – 8.30pm at Molly Malone's Pub, probably downstairs----
-Email: philomadrid@yahoo.co.uk
-Yahoo group >> philomadridgroup-subscribe@yahoogroups.co.uk <
-Old essays: www.geocities.com/philomadrid
- Blog: http://philomadrid.blogspot.com/
-Group photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/photosphilo
-My tel 606081813
-metro: Bilbao : buses: 21, 149, 147
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Dimas Taxi service: mobile 627 219 316 email dimasobregon@hotmail.com

TINA Flat http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/photosphilo/TINAFLAT

Tertulia with Ignacio and friends: Every Thursday, from 19:30 to 21h, at Moore's Irish Pub, c/ Barceló 1 (metro Tribunal).
http://sites.google.com/site/tertuliainenglishmadrid/

**********HOLIDAY FLATS**********
Mayte; Almería (Villa de Níjar); http://picasaweb.google.com/photosphilo/HOLIDAY_FLAT_mayte_AlmerAVillaDeNJar
*************************************














What's wrong with being judgemental?

Before we go to the point, we must agree on what being judgemental means. Otherwise there is no sense in starting a discussion.

Lawrence says: "The make negative value judgements, which may also be moral judgements, about someone or someone's behaviour without seeming to take into account all the relevant facts or evidence". I would like to know what "all the relevant facts" are. Which facts are relevant and which ones are not? One must be as cool as a cucumber to judge which facts are relevant, a sort of third party. But that is not a solution either, because a third party can also be judgemental. So, how to get out of this dilemma?

Cultural differences should be respected but without exaggeration. In the 90s in Lisbon one still could find Africans or Gypsies living in blocks of houses and using bathtubs for their mini-plantation fields instead of using the facilities for their usual purpose. The "advantage" for the neighbours was tremendous, those who invented green-houses n«in their bathrooms literally stank. Never trouble's trouble till trouble troubles you. As you are not affected by the sweet smell, you stand as a good guy in defence of the respect towards other cultures. By criticising their behaviour you are judgemental. And it is wrong to be judgemental, especially now, because the fashion is different. It is better to be as close as possible to such people, for instance taking a lift with them but not once in a while but on everyday basis. Once you do it and having to repeat the prowess many times, sooner or later you will put aside your values of respecting different cultures.

Concerning the example quoted by Lawrence about giving birth, we think that the medical profession rightly raises their hue and cry. If something goes wrong, it could be too late to send the expectant mother to hospital. All this boils down to the education level that crushes superstitions and at the same time strange practices, meaning certain aspect of culture.

Another example that comes to my mind is female circumcision largely practised in Muslim countries. Should we respect such practices in order to avoid our risking of making judgements?

Sometime ago on German tv I saw a mixed couple living in Germany (he was Muslim and under some naïve pretext of visiting his family, he wanted to take their daughter with her so that a clitorial excision could be performed on the adolescent girl. But his German partner thought that something fishy was around and stopped the whole expedition in time. He protested in court of law because of alleged lack of freedom of intending to make an innocent trip but fortunately the daughter spilt the beans. Another example of a person being judgemental. It is really wrong to be judgemental…

WHO is also judgemental by intervening in the whole practice of female circumcision because it should respect cultural tradition… Is it what Lawrence suggests? By the same token if in today's world there were practices of human sacrifice as they used to be in ancient cultures, in the name of respecting other cultures, we should not interfere. Shouldn't we really?

We think that in the whole issue something is terribly wrong.

Let put aside for a moment the discussion and have a look at some dictionaries for the lexical entry JUDGEMENTAL.

Shorter Oxford English Dictionary (2007:1474, vol.1) says that to be judgemental involves "the exercise of judgement or inclined to make moral judgement. It does not specify whether the expression has a derogative meaning.

And Cobuild's Real English Dictionary says that one who is judgemental "they are too quick to form their opinion" although it does not specify what "too quick" means. And it adds that the expression is often (not always) used in the derogative meaning. We wonder whether one, in order to pass judgement, must have a PhD in the matter concerned or his qualifications are not sufficient either. If that is the case, I give in and recognize my defeat.

But my little bird tells me that I am not wrong. Whatever the case, we think that the solution to the problem is quite simple. Only in the cases when a person throws their weight around thinking big of themselves judging others' actions or behaviour can be considered judgemental in its pejorative meaning. In all other cases it means simply to pass judgement, to express your negative opinion about somebody's behaviour or their action.

"I am afraid, I don't like your hair-do" said by a person even to their partner is not a crime or a sin. Is the person being judgemental in a derogative sense? Not at all!

The problem being that in practice any critical opinion is considered judgemental by a person being criticized or by their supporters. But isn't it a paradox that those who protest against others' being judgemental, aren't they judgemental themselves? After all they also pass judgement on those who, they think are judgemental. It reminds me of a proverb: The pot calls the cattle black as in other languages with the respective literal translation:
PT Diz a panela para a sertã: chega-te para lá, porque me enfarruscas.
"Says the pan to the frying-pan: move-yourself over there, because me you blacken"
ES Quien dice a quien: el caldero a la sartén.
Dijo la sartén a la caldera: quítate de allá, culinegra.
DE Ein Esel schimpft den andern Sackträger / Langohr.
"A donkey reproaches the other sack-bearer / long-eared"
SE Ve dig, så svart du är, sa grytan till kitteln.
"Hey you, so black you are, said pan-the to frying-pan-the"
PL Kocioł garnkowi przygania, a sam smoli.
"Cauldron pan reproaches, but itself blackens"
Kto drugiemu łaje, niech sam przykład daje
"Who other reproaches, let him example set"
RU Gorshok kotlu smejotsja, a oba tchorny.
"Pan cauldron (Dat) laughs-itself (Refl), but both black"
Ne sudi drugix za to v tchjom sam ne bez grexa
"Don't judge others for that that [you] yourself not without sin"

An obvious thing is that nobody likes being criticized especially in moral terms and in most cases people defend themselves by saying that those who are critical are judgemental. And here, we think, is the root of the whole misunderstanding.

I have pointed out in my previous essays that this aspect has a larger sense and fits the pattern: ridiculous European pacifism (Oriana Fallaci says that if the things go on following this tendency, Europe in the long run will give itself in as a soft touch attacked by the fundamental militia Muslims. In the name of peace, Europeans will not shoot at anybody and will end up as slaves. We will become Euroarabia. I will permit myself to remind you of the proverb I have used on different occasions in our debates:
UK If you want peace, prepare for war.
PT Se queres paz, prepara-te para a guerra.
"If you want peace, prepare yourself (Refl) for the war"
ES Si quieres paz, prepárate para la guerra.
Quien espada lleva, paz trae.
DE Wer Friede haben will, muss zum Kriege rüsten.
"Who peace have wants (=wants to have), must for-the war arm"
SE Om du vill fred, rusta för krig. "If you want peace, arm for war"
PL Jeśli chcesz pokoju, szykuj się do wojny "If you want peace, get-ready to war"
RU Xotchesh' mira - gotovsja k vojne "You want peace, prepare yourself (Refl) to war"

Another factor that also fits the picture is to be positive and show this positive attitude, even if you have lost your love, your children, etc., you should keep smiling and keep thinking positively. Don't show that you are depressed (you are ridiculous if you do that). To this pattern "don't be judgemental" is also added. Don't pass judgements, respect others even if they don't respect you, because if you show any improper reaction you will cause a chain reaction that could develop first to an argument and then to war and war is not welcome. Only bloody-minded people love wars.

Our lives are complicated and a lot of people struggle to make both ends meet, problems are at every corner and everyone of us has problems, because life in itself is a problem. Only when we step down from this world will the problems for us disappear altogether. I don't think that deceiving ourselves by being always optimistic and positive is a good remedy for us. But one thing is certain, people are sick and tired of listening to problems of others. Any complaint is not welcomed, any attitude which is not positive is dismissed as an intention of making ourselves the victim.

Obviously there is no need of going into other extreme and paint everything black as the Stones did in the 60s in their hit "Paint it black".

I have consulted the Google limited to the UK on the matter of being judgemental and I have found voices like these:

"I think what needs to be differentiated here is the difference between "judgemental" and "prejudgemental". Being judgemental isn't in and of itself a bad thing. Our opinions form the judgements we make. Indeed, one of the most respected professions in the country, where the members of that profession are, ideally, the pinnacle of good moral fibre and sound ethical calibre, is a judge.

Where problems occur is where people prejudge a person, situation, or theory. Prejudice is one of the worst traits in humanity and underpins many a violent, unthinking, and simply poorly considered act. However, where an opinion is developed after consideration of the facts, the moral and ethical factors, and any other points of relevance, then a judgement will be made for better or worse".

"All judges have to be judgmental because the act of being judgmental is to make a decision about something, and that is the basic job of a judge. You can be judgmental without being emotional and biased".

There are a lot of opinions, although the majority is inclined to the pejorative sense, which we ascribe to today's "fashion".

We are glad that a highly controversial subject is going to be discussed. At least we have managed to set the cat among the pigeons.

To finish with, apart from the situation mentioned, we are of the opinion that it is nothing wrong to be judgemental. The question is how your judgements are formulated and how they are presented. After all we cannot bask in positive judgements only. We must build our lives on real lives. We live in Spain, but building castles in Spain is not the only recipe for our lives, although it is nothing wrong to practice this activity from time to time.

Look after yourselves
Richard




What is wrong with being judgemental?

What does "being judgemental" mean? And although meaning is not the same as definition, I will start by proposing a definition.

To (corrected from original) make negative value judgements, which may also be moral judgements, about someone or someone's behaviour without seeming to take into account all the relevant facts or evidence.

We might deem a practice as being wrong, for example unsupervised child birth at home, without considering the cultural or traditional practice of the mother. The meaning is to show lack of sensitivity or regard to other people's feelings or beliefs when expressing an opinion about them.

It is self evident, or at least ought to be, that making judgments about others without considering material facts or evidence is not to be encouraged, if not down right unacceptable.

However, this still leaves open the questions, what constitutes "material facts"? And how many material facts are required to qualify us to make a value judgment about others? But these methodology issues, I would argue, are empirical issues in the sense that we can decide on what qualifies someone to make value judgements on a case by case basis.

For example, we can condemn unhealthy snack eaters because we happen not to like snacks such as crisps, or we can criticise, snack eaters because studies have shown that such snacks are unhealthy. (see this story that appeared in the Daily Mail in 2006: Schoolboy punished for 'having two unhealthy snacks' http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-410292/Schoolboy-punished-having-unhealthy-snacks.html : 16:07 13 October 2006). Does our ability to dislike something qualify us to criticise those who happen to like the things we don't like? But are scientific studies a sufficient condition to give us the right to condemn others? In the story of the young boy, the boy was forced to have lunch in the head's office because his parents packed two snacks which is against school health guidelines sent to parents.

But there is an equally important issue in a debate on being judgemental. Whatever the justification for the person making the value judgement is, what matters for that person to be called judgemental is the opinion of the "victim" or those who disagree with this person making the judgement. Of course, those who agree with this person wouldn't call him judgemental but maybe perceptive, wise, fair etc.

This introduces the idea of what is fair? What can we judge others on and what is out of bounds? In today's world, top ticket issues would involve culture, tradition, religion, and race.

Consider this report that appeared in Women's eNews: Bolivia Pushes Birthing Practices Closer to Home
Run Date: 11/30/08 By Jean Friedman-Rudovsky WeNews correspondent: http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/3839/context/cover/..

The issue in this article is that although the Bolivian government has made birth health care for women free, with a noticeable degree of success, many indigenous women either do not have access to this service or do not feel at all comfortable in a hospital setting. For example, indigenous women are empowered during childbirth because this is one of the very few occasions they have when the male (husband) is doing what the woman (wife) is asking him to do; cook, look after the other children etc. However, in hospitals, fathers and family members are not allowed near the women giving birth because it is unsanitary or as one hospital staffer is quoted as saying; what if the husband of one woman sees another woman's private parts?

Another example given in the article is of a doctor, "chided his patient for her 'dirty rituals' (burying the placenta after childbirth)."

This story surely illustrates the case that culture and tradition are rife with examples of being judgemental. Of course, bedside manners, information and understanding others will go a long way. For example, some doctors now go to villages in the mountains where women give birth at home but if there are complications the doctor intervenes or sends the patient to hospital. And by allowing women to have visitors in hospital surgical interventions were reduced.

However, the big issue or rather problem begins when we fail to consider the evidence. Or when we are prejudiced or racist that prevents us from considering any objective evidence. Sometimes maybe because we want to be prejudiced and sometimes maybe because we have been indoctrinated.

The problem for an objective observer would therefore be, to distinguish the bigots from the innocent and the naive.

Take care

Lawrence





from Lawrence, Pub Philosophy Group, Sunday meeting: What's wrong with being judgemental? (essay by Richard)

from Lawrence, Pub Philosophy Group, Sunday meeting: What is wrong with being judgemental?

Dear friends,

This Sunday we are discussing; what’s wrong with being judgemental?

Richard might be writing an essay and if he does I’ll post it on the blog. In the meantime I’m including a rather short essay on the topic which I managed to write.

See you Sunday, all the best

Lawrence

IF YOU DON’T GET AN EMAIL BY FRIDAY PLEASE LET ME KNOW


+++++++++MEETING DETAILS+++++++++
SUNDAY 6.00pm – 8.30pm at Molly Malone's Pub, probably downstairs----
-Email: philomadrid@yahoo.co.uk
-Yahoo group >> philomadridgroup-subscribe@yahoogroups.co.uk <
-Old essays: www.geocities.com/philomadrid
- Blog: http://philomadrid.blogspot.com/
-Group photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/photosphilo
-My tel 606081813
-metro: Bilbao : buses: 21, 149, 147
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Dimas Taxi service: mobile 627 219 316 email dimasobregon@hotmail.com

TINA Flat http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/photosphilo/TINAFLAT

Tertulia with Ignacio and friends: Every Thursday, from 19:30 to 21h, at Moore’s Irish Pub, c/ Barceló 1 (metro Tribunal).
http://sites.google.com/site/tertuliainenglishmadrid/

**********HOLIDAY FLATS**********
Mayte; Almería (Villa de Níjar); http://picasaweb.google.com/photosphilo/HOLIDAY_FLAT_mayte_AlmerAVillaDeNJar
*************************************


What is wrong with being judgemental?

What does “being judgemental” mean? And although meaning is not the same as definition, I will start by proposing a definition.

To make negative value judgements, which may also be moral judgements, about someone or someone’s behaviour without seeming to take into account all the relevant facts or evidence.

We might deem a practice as being wrong, for example unsupervised child birth at home, without considering the cultural or traditional practice of the mother. The meaning is to show lack of sensitivity or regard to other people’s feelings or beliefs when expressing an opinion about them.

It is self evident, or at least ought to be, that making judgments about others without considering material facts or evidence is not to be encouraged, if not down right unacceptable.

However, this still leaves open the questions, what constitutes “material facts”? And how many material facts are required to qualify us to make a value judgment about others? But these methodology issues, I would argue, are empirical issues in the sense that we can decide on what qualifies someone to make value judgements on a case by case basis.

For example, we can condemn unhealthy snack eaters because we happen not to like snacks such as crisps, or we can criticise, snack eaters because studies have shown that such snacks are unhealthy. (see this story that appeared in the Daily Mail in 2006: Schoolboy punished for 'having two unhealthy snacks' http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-410292/Schoolboy-punished-having-unhealthy-snacks.html : 16:07 13 October 2006). Does our ability to dislike something qualify us to criticise those who happen to like the things we don’t like? But are scientific studies a sufficient condition to give us the right to condemn others? In the story of the young boy, the boy was forced to have lunch in the head’s office because his parents packed two snacks which is against school health guidelines sent to parents.

But there is an equally important issue in a debate on being judgemental. Whatever the justification for the person making the value judgement is, what matters for that person to be called judgemental is the opinion of the “victim” or those who disagree with this person making the judgement. Of course, those who agree with this person wouldn’t call him judgemental but maybe perceptive, wise, fair etc.

This introduces the idea of what is fair? What can we judge others on and what is out of bounds? In today’s world, top ticket issues would involve culture, tradition, religion, and race.

Consider this report that appeared in Women’s eNews: Bolivia Pushes Birthing Practices Closer to Home
Run Date: 11/30/08 By Jean Friedman-Rudovsky WeNews correspondent: http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/3839/context/cover/..

The issue in this article is that although the Bolivian government has made birth health care for women free, with a noticeable degree of success, many indigenous women either do not have access to this service or do not feel at all comfortable in a hospital setting. For example, indigenous women are empowered during childbirth because this is one of the very few occasions they have when the male (husband) is doing what the woman (wife) is asking him to do; cook, look after the other children etc. However, in hospitals, fathers and family members are not allowed near the women giving birth because it is unsanitary or as one hospital staffer is quoted as saying; what if the husband of one woman sees another woman's private parts?

Another example given in the article is of a doctor, “chided his patient for her 'dirty rituals' (burying the placenta after childbirth).”

This story surely illustrates the case that culture and tradition are rife with examples of being judgemental. Of course, bedside manners, information and understanding others will go a long way. For example, some doctors now go to villages in the mountains where women give birth at home but if there are complications the doctor intervenes or sends the patient to hospital. And by allowing women to have visitors in hospital surgical interventions were reduced.

However, the big issue or rather problem begins when we fail to consider the evidence. Or when we are prejudiced or racist that prevents us from considering any objective evidence. Sometimes maybe because we want to be prejudiced and sometimes maybe because we have been indoctrinated.

The problem for an objective observer would therefore be, to distinguish the bigots from the innocent and the naive.

Take care

Lawrence





from Lawrence, Pub Philosophy Group, Sunday meeting: What is wrong with being judgemental?

from Lawrence, Pub Philosophy Group, Sunday meeting: Can we be free and in a relationship?

Dear Friends

This Sunday we are discussing: Can we be free and in a relationship?

In the meantime, Richard is in the process of finishing an essay so I have prepared this link on the blog so that I will post the essay there. However, I will be able to put the essay on the blog quite late in the evening:
http://philomadrid.blogspot.com/2009/05/can-we-be-free-and-in-relationship.html

Ceit has also asked me to share a cartoon with so I have pasted this in the blog. The reason why I’m putting it on the blog because I have my email set to send text only emails. So here is the link:

cartoon by Terrance Nowicki Jr.
http://philomadrid.blogspot.com/2009/05/cartoon-by-terrance-nowicki-jr.html


take care and see you Sunday,

Lawrence

IF YOU DON’T GET AN EMAIL BY FRIDAY PLEASE LET ME KNOW


+++++++++MEETING DETAILS+++++++++
SUNDAY 6.00pm – 8.30pm at Molly Malone's Pub, probably downstairs----
-Email: philomadrid@yahoo.co.uk
-Yahoo group >> philomadridgroup-subscribe@yahoogroups.co.uk <
-Old essays: www.geocities.com/philomadrid
- Blog: http://philomadrid.blogspot.com/
-Group photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/photosphilo
-My tel 606081813
-metro: Bilbao : buses: 21, 149, 147
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Dimas Taxi service: mobile 627 219 316 email dimasobregon@hotmail.com

TINA Flat http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/photosphilo/TINAFLAT

Tertulia with Ignacio and friends: Every Thursday, from 19:30 to 21h, at Moore’s Irish Pub, c/ Barceló 1 (metro Tribunal).
http://sites.google.com/site/tertuliainenglishmadrid/

**********HOLIDAY FLATS**********
Mayte; Almería (Villa de Níjar); http://picasaweb.google.com/photosphilo/HOLIDAY_FLAT_mayte_AlmerAVillaDeNJar
*************************************




from Lawrence, Pub Philosophy Group, Sunday meeting: Can we be free and in a relationship?

cartoon by Terrance Nowicki Jr.

Hi Lawrence,

Miguel (he of the beard) wanted to see this editorial cartoon after I mentioned it to him last week.

I don't know if you want to send it with the weekly email or not. The cartoonist is Terrance Nowicki Jr.

See you Sunday.

Ceit

Can we be free and in a relationship?

Richard is planning to write an essay on the topic, but I won't be able to post the essay until late in the evening. So please come back later for the essay. Thanks Lawrence

Can we be free and in a relationship?

The subject boils down to the following idea: how to reconcile freedom with the stability of the relationship.

At the moment I am reading Berlin ’s idea on freedom and there is a clear parallelism between freedom and authority within society and the subject we are to discuss. As we know the social problem has not been solved yet and most probably never will be solved. And what about our subject? The answer is very straightforward. It may only be solved within the couple concerned. Every solution is good as long as the people involved approve of it. After all, all is fair in love and war.

As the circumstances change and as we grow older (and … wiser), a couple in order to survive in a relationship must know how to adapt.

The other problem here is what it means to be in a relationship. To my mind it means to have a joint life experience, joint plans, sharing our happiness and sorrows. There are more and more couples that consider themselves to be in a relationship but they lead their individual lives. I will never call it that those couples are in a relationship.

In this sort of literature there is a tendency to portray two people in a relationship as 2 independent human beings that preserve their individual independence as a model of a healthy relationship. I don’t share such an opinion. There must be some doses of dependence between the partners. After all, our lives should complete each other’s. Obviously it is hard to define how big this dependence should be. It seems to me that it ought not to be very high. As there are two individuals who decide to enter in a relationship, they, willy nilly, will have to preserve their own respective identities, they cannot merge permanently in one human being as William Blake supposed that one day human being will reach that highest stage.

It is useless and not proper to give even a tentative general answer to the question of freedom in a relationship, because a human being is, at least it has been up till now (later on, time will tell because clonization may take over) a unique creature and a combination of unique creatures will always result in uniqueness. Besides, the whole situation the couple is involved in is unrepetitive and cannot be replicated. What does this all mean? It means there are no two couples who organize their relationship in the same way. There could be similarities but never identicity. Obviously we may classify all the couples into some main categories but it will not help us much. All in all: the situation is unique and the couple is unique and on top of that we all change in the course of time. Ergo, there are too many variables that prevent us from finding a coherent answer valid for even most of us.

It is true that what’s good for the goose is good for the gander but it is also true that one’s man’s meat is another man’s poison.

My personal opinion is that I am sure whatever we may understand by freedom, being in a relationship implies that one will have to live in a different way compared to the way (s)he leads his/her life living alone. Lots of people forget about it. One must assume responsibility not only for himself/herself but for the partner and for the off-spring(s) if there are any. And not only that. Knowing how to share the same space is very important indeed. We should not play it down. It is not rare that here lies the root of a conflict.

The main problem within relationship is to satisfy each other’s needs. The problem of freedom starts to emerge when those needs are not satisfied. Very often there is incompatibility between the professional and family life of those involved in a relationship.

Until a year ago when I read an excellent study “Mating in Captivity” by Esther Perel, a multi-cultured psychologist and a family therapist, I thought that for the good of the couple, there should be no secrets between those who form a relationship. The authoress points out that it is not healthy either. If a couple chooses stability in their relationship, sooner or later it leads to boredom. She asks such questions:

Can we want what we already have?

Why does great sex fade for couples who claim they love each other as much as ever?

Why does intimacy not guarantee great sex?

How to go higher in our erotic intelligence?

There is no doubt that a certain mystery about our partner must be preserved and Perel calls it “the third one” as a challenge to the actual partner. But attention: this “third one” does not necessary imply a person, it could be an activity like playing the piano or any other mystery not revealed. So it is better in the long run not to reveal everything to the partner. Obviously creativity is indispensable as a weapon against boredom that creeps in.

But there are couples that accept that kind of routine leading to boredom with all its consequences. And they conform with that situation and consider it natural and normal.

On the other hand if you do not have that stability, your relationship is wobbly, although it has an edge; boredom is not present; the relationship is alive and kicking.

Spanish women have changed a lot in the last 20 years. In a way it is understandable taking into account the male almost total domination. It was a justified reaction but the things as usual in such circumstances has gone too far, a sort of Jacobin revolution that ended with the guillotine chopping off the man’s head; the result: the man is still looking for his head … And now, a burnt child dreads the fire or once bitten, twice shy, which definitely sounds better in Spanish, Portuguese, Russian or Polish (with the respective literal translation), because in German or Swedish the proverb sounds the same:

PT O gato escaldado de água fria tem medo.

"The cat scalded of water cold has fright"

ES El gato escaldado del agua fría huye.

PL Kto się na gorącym sparzy to na zimne dmucha. "Who on hot scalds on cold blows"

RU Obzhiogshis' na moloke, duyet na vodu. "[Who is]Scalded on milk, blows on water"

DE (Ein) gebranntes Kind scheut (fürchtet) das Feuer.

"A burnt child avoids (is-afraid-of) the fire"

SE Bränt barn skyr elden. "Burnt child avoids fire-the"

No wonder, Spanish men in their late 30s or 40s turn their attention to women from South America or to those from Eastern Europe . The scar is profound.

Can we be free in a relationship? First we should answer the question whether we can be free living alone. Free from something or free to do something?

Have a nice day

Richard

from Lawrence, Pub Philosophy Group, Sunday meeting: is love all we need?

Dear friends,

As you know because of the football we had to postpone our meeting last week so this Sunday we are discussing: is love all we need?

See you Sunday and take care

Lawrence

IF YOU DON’T GET AN EMAIL BY FRIDAY PLEASE LET ME KNOW


+++++++++MEETING DETAILS+++++++++
SUNDAY 6.00pm – 8.30pm at Molly Malone's Pub, probably downstairs----
-Email: philomadrid@yahoo.co.uk
-Yahoo group >> philomadridgroup-subscribe@yahoogroups.co.uk <
-Old essays: www.geocities.com/philomadrid
- Blog: http://philomadrid.blogspot.com/
-Group photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/photosphilo
-My tel 606081813
-metro: Bilbao : buses: 21, 149, 147
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Dimas Taxi service: mobile 627 219 316 email dimasobregon@hotmail.com

TINA Flat http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/photosphilo/TINAFLAT

Tertulia with Ignacio and friends: Every Thursday, from 19:30 to 21h, at Moore’s Irish Pub, c/ Barceló 1 (metro Tribunal).
http://sites.google.com/site/tertuliainenglishmadrid/

**********HOLIDAY FLATS**********
Mayte; Almería (Villa de Níjar); http://picasaweb.google.com/photosphilo/HOLIDAY_FLAT_mayte_AlmerAVillaDeNJar
*************************************




from Lawrence, Pub Philosophy Group, Sunday meeting: is love all we need?

from Lawrence, Pub Philosophy Group, Sunday meeting: is love all we need?

Dear friends,

This Sunday we are discussing: is love all we need?

We have discussed the topic of love many times before. But it is always worth visiting this topic again sometimes. There is no doubt in my mind that love is something we love talking about (sorry, couldn’t resist that). But do we love talking about love because that is all we need or because that is what we long for?

See you Sunday and take care

Lawrence

IF YOU DON’T GET AN EMAIL BY FRIDAY PLEASE LET ME KNOW


+++++++++MEETING DETAILS+++++++++
SUNDAY 6.00pm – 8.30pm at Molly Malone's Pub, probably downstairs----
-Email: philomadrid@yahoo.co.uk
-Yahoo group >> philomadridgroup-subscribe@yahoogroups.co.uk <
-Old essays: www.geocities.com/philomadrid
- Blog: http://philomadrid.blogspot.com/
-Group photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/photosphilo
-My tel 606081813
-metro: Bilbao : buses: 21, 149, 147
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Dimas Taxi service: mobile 627 219 316 email dimasobregon@hotmail.com

TINA Flat http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/photosphilo/TINAFLAT

Tertulia with Ignacio and friends: Every Thursday, from 19:30 to 21h, at Moore’s Irish Pub, c/ Barceló 1 (metro Tribunal).
http://sites.google.com/site/tertuliainenglishmadrid/

**********HOLIDAY FLATS**********
Mayte; Almería (Villa de Níjar); http://picasaweb.google.com/photosphilo/HOLIDAY_FLAT_mayte_AlmerAVillaDeNJar
*************************************




from Lawrence, Pub Philosophy Group, Sunday meeting: is love all we need?

from Lawrence, Message from Alfonso conferencia el día Jueves 7 de Mayo a las 18 horas, mi trabajo como dramaturgo, poeta y pintor

Message from Alfonso:

Amigo Lawrence:
 
Por si te interesa comunicárselo a los amigos de la tertulia doy una conferencia el día Jueves 7 de Mayo a las 18 horas
en el Ateneo de Madrid, calle del Pardo, hacia el número 20,en la Cátedra de Teatro Valle Inclán, en la primera planta
sobre mi trabajo como dramaturgo, poeta y pintor.
Te lo digo por si alguien tiene interés en acercarse.
Un abrazo
Alfonso Vallejo



Encuentros con Autores 3

Jueves, 7 de Mayo (18.00 h.)

Sala de Conferencias

ALFONSO VALLEJO

(PRESENTA: DR. FRANCISCO GUTIÉRREZ CARBAJO)

Encuentros con Investigadores 2

Jueves, 14 de Mayo (18.00 h.)

Sala de Conferencias

El metateatro de José Sanchis Sinisterra.

DRA. MARÍA GRAY

El teatro pánico de Fernando Arrabal.

DR. DIEGO SANTOS


+++++++++MEETING DETAILS+++++++++
SUNDAY 6.00pm – 8.30pm at Molly Malone's Pub, probably downstairs----
-Email: philomadrid@yahoo.co.uk
-Yahoo group >> philomadridgroup-subscribe@yahoogroups.co.uk <
-Old essays: www.geocities.com/philomadrid
- Blog: http://philomadrid.blogspot.com/
-Group photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/photosphilo
-My tel 606081813
-metro: Bilbao : buses: 21, 149, 147
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



from Lawrence, Message from Alfonso conferencia el día Jueves 7 de Mayo a las 18 horas, mi trabajo como dramaturgo, poeta y pintor